Cruiser Command

Cruiser command is a cooperative map between two teams. Simply put, each team controls one battlecruiser and the goal is to kill the opponent's battlecruiser.


It is currently Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:19 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next


 Post subject: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 3:55 am 
User avatar
CCI
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:32 am
Posts: 116
Location: United States
Offline
It's been a major problem ever since I've started playing CC. People come, get trained up by the experts, and then just disappear 2-3 months later. Dreadnought almost disbanded CCI because of it. I think I might understand why, as I have now left CC for an extended period twice (today was my first time playing in about a month and a half). Prior to my last lapse in activity, I played probably about 10 games a week for about 2 months, but then it just got stale for me. Here's why:

1. Chores / too many things being manual
2. Tons of items and upgrades and complexity, but the same things are used over and over
3. Clumsy controls

Now I will elaborate and offer suggestions, starting with #1 and #3 since they are connected in some ways.

Many new players and semi-experienced but not expert players like me often find themselves piloting ss and doing chores. Both of which have clumsy controls and can be tedious / boring. That's a big turnoff. It's something that new players can put up with for awhile, but just get tired of it eventually. I'll identify each boring chore / clumsy control and offer suggestions:

First off: a task that many new players get assigned to: spamming repair stations. I find this unnecessarily tedious. I don't think it should be removed from the game but it needs some work. The most important thing it is lacking is a hotkey. The tooltip says that 'w' is the hotkey but it doesn't work? Anyway, I find it really annoying to have to click a little tiny inventory slot to use a repair station. It's easy to misclick. Plus shift clicking doesn't seem to be supported. AND, your marine stops moving when you deploy one. I think it would be much better if there was and easy, intuitive way to shift click several locations in the bc and have the marine automatically deploy a repair station at each clicked location, if possible. For example, the hotkey to deploy a repair station could be 'w'; so I could just press 'w' and shift click 6 locations and the marine would walk to each location and deploy a repair station. That would free me up to look outside for a few seconds and see what's going on (a big plus for noobs who could then learn about battles)

Next: getting free stuff from construction console. I find this a bit tedious too because of how long the cooldown is between purchasing items. It's only like 1 second or so, but when you need to buy like 20 flares that's a long time to just sit there and wait. If it's possible with the galaxy editor, make the cooldown for free items much less than 1 second. Another problem with this is that some of the items look the same so distinguishing between them is a problem. Ignore this if you've fixed this already, but if I remember right ss shields and flares had the same model. Some others might too.

Next: ss hotkeys. Small ships are lacking of some hotkeys and some hotkeys vary from ship to ship. Some examples of ss lacking hotkeys are miners and chompers lacking a flare hotkey. (but btw nice job adding a missile hotkey for wraiths) Also emergency hull repair lacks a hotkey. Here's what I propose:
Each inventory slot has a hotkey. If possible, numbers would be good (press '1' to use first slot, '2' to use second, etc) but I understand how this might not be possible because of control groups. (This is what I would suggest for your standalone though) If this isn't possible in SC, then at least make a hotkey for each slot with letters. A couple of notes: obviously the chomper has way too many inventory slots to have a hotkey for each one, so that ship would be an exception. I don't see need for inventory hotkeys in chompers anyway because by my understanding it's meant to be a vulnerable ship; it really shouldn't even be able to use flares and such. And also note that I don't think this should replace current hotkeys for flares and such, just be an addition to them. So to launch a flare, for example, you could either press 't', left click the inventory slot, or press the key for the inventory slot. This would also be useful for mineral venting on ships that dont have a mineral vent hotkey (just hit the keys for the slots with minerals in it), for emergency hull repair (just hit whatever key that corresponds to the slot containing an emergency hull repair), and for wraith missiles (you could pick which missile to launch if you are carrying multiple types). And if you attempt to use an item that has no active usage, it could just display an error in the bottom left of the screen.
Lastly for ss hotkeys: not all ships have the same docking key. Please pick either 'c' or 'd' and make all ships use the same one.

Next: loading / unloading items into / from ss. You've improved this very much over the past few months, so big thumbs up for that. But it still lacks one little thing. There is a button to withdraw ship items onto the ground, but not one for withdrawing the unit inventory onto the ground. There is enough space to add such a button too. You could put it right above the deposit (down arrow) button. Also, you can left click on an item and it will switch between unit inventory and ship inventory. I think it would be nice if you could right click an item to place it on the ground. Not sure if that event is supported in the editor (editor is a bit lacking in mouse events) but keep it in mind for the standalone.

And lastly for #1 and #3: camera controls in bc consoles. Weapons and Science have a button to free the camera, but none of the others do. Personally, I don't even understand the reasoning for locking the camera in the first place. I mean, you can still scroll anywhere on the map, it's just painstakingly sluggish and as soon as you move the mouse away from the edge of the screen it zooms back the bc. I hated this when I was new, and nearly every new player I've introduced to CC negatively comments on it. But, if there is logic behind it I will ask that a button to free the camera be added on other consoles. I don't think it's necessary on Construction and Hangar consoles, and Upgrades doesn't have room for it on some menus, but at least add it to Navigations and Power. And add it to the marine command card if possible.

So now for some elaborations on #2: Tons of items and upgrades and complexity, but the same things are used over and over.

What I mean by this is that there is an overwhelming amount of items, ships, upgrades, bc weapons, etc, but generally the same ones are used every time. So noobs have to take in all these numbers and names, and then once they do, they find out that the strategy of using these things is quite bland. For this game to become popular, it does NOT NEED MORE STUFF, just more usage for each item. Think of chess; there are only a handful of piece types, each one having simple rules. But the strategy behind using them is extraordinarily abundant. So it's easy for new players to pick up the simple rules but has a very high skill ceiling. CC is becoming the opposite. There are way too many items and such and most of them just have one usage. To me that's boring. So now I will offer some suggestions.

First off: BC weapons. Despite having multiple options, lasers are used almost every single time. The only variation is number of bursts and maybe skipping broadsides. I talked with Slapshot today, and he said you made kinetics somewhat viable, especially in combination with a missile (can't remember which one). That's GREAT. Keep up changes like that. I think lasers should be a mainstream, and should be used well over 50% of the time, but please make kinetics and missiles more viable and maybe make broadsides/penta not an absolute necessity for late game.

Secondly: new ss items. I see you added a bunch of new ss items, which I guess is fine but what I really wish you would do is add strategy behind the ones that already exist. What I mean is there should be a few items with multiple purposes / usages rather than many items with few usages. When I first played CC, I played the tutorial. Near the end of that game, I played around with the ss a bit and realized how good this game really is. For wraiths, side boosting can be used to dodge but also to move faster or can be used in combination with a flare to make a little protective wall, at a cost of energy. Well done. Also emp slows enemies down but also does a little damage. Plus, unlike lasers, can be fired in any direction. Also well done. And miner's turbo boost can be used to get the hell out of a hairy situation, of course, but can also be used push other ships, like chompers, to safety. And later I found out it can be used with a flare to create a very long and effective flare line. Also well done. So I would like to see more stuff like this throughout the game.

It appears that maybe the early things added to CC where well thought out and strategic, but most recent ones not as much. I like trying to make decisions that best fit the situation. For example: Your bc needs to charge up some energy and you are near many asteroids. You could upgrade the core to solve the energy problem and buy miners for the asteroids, or you could save money and tackle both by powerdocking with chompers. Then let's say a chomper gets shot so now you still have energy problems, and, you cannot have someone sitting on power console so a sudden attack may cause damage before someone can react. You could then upgrade core to increase the energy generation and give you more shields to buy time for a sudden attack.

Anyway, sorry to make you read so much; I hope it helps. And if it sounds like I'm whining about everything, I'm not. I just want to keep this game from dying and as a map developer myself I know these kind of lengthy, whiny suggestions help.


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:11 am 
User avatar
Creator
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:00 pm
Posts: 1027
Location: In the SC2 Editor
Wiki edits: 115
Offline
Puppetbones wrote:
It's been a major problem ever since I've started playing CC. People come, get trained up by the experts, and then just disappear 2-3 months later. Dreadnought almost disbanded CCI because of it. I think I might understand why, as I have now left CC for an extended period twice (today was my first time playing in about a month and a half). Prior to my last lapse in activity, I played probably about 10 games a week for about 2 months, but then it just got stale for me. Here's why:

1. Chores / too many things being manual
2. Tons of items and upgrades and complexity, but the same things are used over and over
3. Clumsy controls

Now I will elaborate and offer suggestions, starting with #1 and #3 since they are connected in some ways.

Many new players and semi-experienced but not expert players like me often find themselves piloting ss and doing chores. Both of which have clumsy controls and can be tedious / boring. That's a big turnoff. It's something that new players can put up with for awhile, but just get tired of it eventually. I'll identify each boring chore / clumsy control and offer suggestions:

First off: a task that many new players get assigned to: spamming repair stations. I find this unnecessarily tedious. I don't think it should be removed from the game but it needs some work. The most important thing it is lacking is a hotkey. The tooltip says that 'w' is the hotkey but it doesn't work? Anyway, I find it really annoying to have to click a little tiny inventory slot to use a repair station. It's easy to misclick. Plus shift clicking doesn't seem to be supported. AND, your marine stops moving when you deploy one. I think it would be much better if there was and easy, intuitive way to shift click several locations in the bc and have the marine automatically deploy a repair station at each clicked location, if possible. For example, the hotkey to deploy a repair station could be 'w'; so I could just press 'w' and shift click 6 locations and the marine would walk to each location and deploy a repair station. That would free me up to look outside for a few seconds and see what's going on (a big plus for noobs who could then learn about battles)

I agree, although I haven't really thought about fixing repair stations until you mentioned it. There's a big problem, which will turn out to impact several of your suggestions here. In the current state, I don't think item hotkeys are possible. The reason for this is slightly technical, but the short story is that SC2 inventory supports bags (containers) and the default inventory is very limited while the the containers are more flexible. I used layout files to make the bags appear where I want and have them open by default. This means CC is using containers instead of the default inventory, and items in containers cant be accessed by hotkeys, or something.

However, I'm all for making a targetable repair station ability, that is also shiftable and transient (meaning it can be cast on the run). This way, you'll be able to easily place repair kits quickly.


Puppetbones wrote:
Next: getting free stuff from construction console. I find this a bit tedious too because of how long the cooldown is between purchasing items. It's only like 1 second or so, but when you need to buy like 20 flares that's a long time to just sit there and wait. If it's possible with the galaxy editor, make the cooldown for free items much less than 1 second. Another problem with this is that some of the items look the same so distinguishing between them is a problem. Ignore this if you've fixed this already, but if I remember right ss shields and flares had the same model. Some others might too.

I can make the cooldown shorter, for sure. I think the reason the cooldown was added in the first place was to stop potential abuse of spamming them all over the place. I guess if I have charges like with the repair station, this is less of an issue.

Distinguishing items is a known problem, but there's a lack of good item models, in my opinion. I recently added the HotS assets, so I'll see if there's any new ones I can use and also color them differently.

Puppetbones wrote:
Next: ss hotkeys. Small ships are lacking of some hotkeys and some hotkeys vary from ship to ship. Some examples of ss lacking hotkeys are miners and chompers lacking a flare hotkey. (but btw nice job adding a missile hotkey for wraiths) Also emergency hull repair lacks a hotkey. Here's what I propose:
Each inventory slot has a hotkey. If possible, numbers would be good (press '1' to use first slot, '2' to use second, etc) but I understand how this might not be possible because of control groups. (This is what I would suggest for your standalone though) If this isn't possible in SC, then at least make a hotkey for each slot with letters.

A couple of notes: obviously the chomper has way too many inventory slots to have a hotkey for each one, so that ship would be an exception. I don't see need for inventory hotkeys in chompers anyway because by my understanding it's meant to be a vulnerable ship; it really shouldn't even be able to use flares and such. And also note that I don't think this should replace current hotkeys for flares and such, just be an addition to them. So to launch a flare, for example, you could either press 't', left click the inventory slot, or press the key for the inventory slot. This would also be useful for mineral venting on ships that dont have a mineral vent hotkey (just hit the keys for the slots with minerals in it), for emergency hull repair (just hit whatever key that corresponds to the slot containing an emergency hull repair), and for wraith missiles (you could pick which missile to launch if you are carrying multiple types). And if you attempt to use an item that has no active usage, it could just display an error in the bottom left of the screen.
Lastly for ss hotkeys: not all ships have the same docking key. Please pick either 'c' or 'd' and make all ships use the same one.

The same problem that I explained before is a big problem here too. Since I cant give hotkeys to inventory items, the only solution is to create a wrapper ability on the command card. This is clunky, takes up more UI spaaaaaace and fills up the already cluttered command card. Therefore, I try to limit the wrapper abilities to items that really need it, like flares. However, I'll look into this issue and see if something has changed with the items or if I missed a possible solution, maybe I can get some hotkeys working.

Credit where it's due: Zakhennahr implemented the fire missile ability due to popular demand.

As for docking hotkey, it's kind of annoying because D is a very intuitive hotkey that everyone are used to, but it's also very obvious for the right side boost. I guess the best option would be to change all docking to C, but I think it would throw everyone off for a long time.
Puppetbones wrote:
Next: loading / unloading items into / from ss. You've improved this very much over the past few months, so big thumbs up for that. But it still lacks one little thing. There is a button to withdraw ship items onto the ground, but not one for withdrawing the unit inventory onto the ground. There is enough spaaaaaace to add such a button too. You could put it right above the deposit (down arrow) button. Also, you can left click on an item and it will switch between unit inventory and ship inventory. I think it would be nice if you could right click an item to place it on the ground. Not sure if that event is supported in the editor (editor is a bit lacking in mouse events) but keep it in mind for the standalone.

Is it ever useful to have a button to drop the entire unit inventory on the ground? I mean, it could be useful in some situations, like dropping missiles and stuff, but in those cases you're not at the hangar and can use the Q-ability. In addition, you can select your marine and use Q if you want. A recent patch made it so using Q while on a console doesn't disconnect you. That said, I'm not completely against adding said functionality, I just don't see a personal use for it.

As for right-clicking to drop, I think that is possible in the SC2 engine, and I guess it could be considered useful. The only thing I'm a bit afraid of is that is throws people off because from their view, the item just disappeared. Did they delete it? Did they salvage it? Did they eat it? Since the hangar interface is so large, they wont see the item appearing next to them.

Puppetbones wrote:
And lastly for #1 and #3: camera controls in bc consoles. Weapons and Science have a button to free the camera, but none of the others do. Personally, I don't even understand the reasoning for locking the camera in the first place. I mean, you can still scroll anywhere on the map, it's just painstakingly sluggish and as soon as you move the mouse away from the edge of the screen it zooms back the bc. I hated this when I was new, and nearly every new player I've introduced to CC negatively comments on it. But, if there is logic behind it I will ask that a button to free the camera be added on other consoles. I don't think it's necessary on Construction and Hangar consoles, and Upgrades doesn't have room for it on some menus, but at least add it to Navigations and Power. And add it to the marine command card if possible.

More unlock buttons is reasonable. Navigation works a bit differently, but it should still be pretty easy to unlock it. The reason for the unlock is just to keep track of where you are. I feel like that is an important part of the game, but maybe not. It kind of helps make you immersed in the BC as your "home" and locks you to it. Battlecruiser is love. Battlecruiser is life. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. Basically, I like having the functionality to follow the BC, but maybe it should be on a opt-in basis? So instead of unlocking, you lock it?

Puppetbones wrote:
So now for some elaborations on #2: Tons of items and upgrades and complexity, but the same things are used over and over.

What I mean by this is that there is an overwhelming amount of items, ships, upgrades, bc weapons, etc, but generally the same ones are used every time. So noobs have to take in all these numbers and names, and then once they do, they find out that the strategy of using these things is quite bland. For this game to become popular, it does NOT NEED MORE STUFF, just more usage for each item. Think of chess; there are only a handful of piece types, each one having simple rules. But the strategy behind using them is extraordinarily abundant. So it's easy for new players to pick up the simple rules but has a very high skill ceiling. CC is becoming the opposite. There are way too many items and such and most of them just have one usage. To me that's boring. So now I will offer some suggestions.

I agree and it's been pointed out before (http://www.cruisercommand.com/forum/vie ... ?f=6&t=682). It's something I'm trying to accomplish. I'd say an explanation to how it got like this is that people keep requesting stuff they want, and they are convinced that is what is needed for the game and sometimes I say "Fine, whatever." and implement it.

Puppetbones wrote:
First off: BC weapons. Despite having multiple options, lasers are used almost every single time. The only variation is number of bursts and maybe skipping broadsides. I talked with Slapshot today, and he said you made kinetics somewhat viable, especially in combination with a missile (can't remember which one). That's GREAT. Keep up changes like that. I think lasers should be a mainstream, and should be used well over 50% of the time, but please make kinetics and missiles more viable and maybe make broadsides/penta not an absolute necessity for late game.

Totally agree. However, 5.0 made kinetics very good. I'd say it was often used more than lasers. It's getting a slight nerf, but will hopefully still be relevant. Missiles are also in a pretty good state now I think. Koreans use a lot of missiles and often focus more on missiles for burst than on other stuff like upgrades. It's interesting to see the difference in metagame between korean and american servers.
Puppetbones wrote:
Secondly: new ss items. I see you added a bunch of new ss items, which I guess is fine but what I really wish you would do is add strategy behind the ones that already exist. What I mean is there should be a few items with multiple purposes / usages rather than many items with few usages. When I first played CC, I played the tutorial. Near the end of that game, I played around with the ss a bit and realized how good this game really is. For wraiths, side boosting can be used to dodge but also to move faster or can be used in combination with a flare to make a little protective wall, at a cost of energy. Well done. Also emp slows enemies down but also does a little damage. Plus, unlike lasers, can be fired in any direction. Also well done. And miner's turbo boost can be used to get the hell out of a hairy situation, of course, but can also be used push other ships, like chompers, to safety. And later I found out it can be used with a flare to create a very long and effective flare line. Also well done. So I would like to see more stuff like this throughout the game.

It appears that maybe the early things added to CC where well thought out and strategic, but most recent ones not as much. I like trying to make decisions that best fit the situation. For example: Your bc needs to charge up some energy and you are near many asteroids. You could upgrade the core to solve the energy problem and buy miners for the asteroids, or you could save money and tackle both by powerdocking with chompers. Then let's say a chomper gets shot so now you still have energy problems, and, you cannot have someone sitting on power console so a sudden attack may cause damage before someone can react. You could then upgrade core to increase the energy generation and give you more shields to buy time for a sudden attack.

Am I allowed to blame this on everyone else? :D Honestly, earlier things where my ideas that I added. Recent ones are mostly others ideas. With a risk of accidentally taking credit for other people's ideas, I'd say side boosts, emp, decoy flares, turbo jump and chompers were all my ideas.

I'd like to think that 5.0 was a patch in the right direction. It made kinetics relevant, it added more fun and use to the science console and small ship battle with the long range science buffs, allowing someone on the BC to have _some_ influence on the battle field and feel like a part of the action. It added more abilities to both the destroyer and subjugator and even though you mentioned the small ship items negatively, I'd like to think that they allow for some minor customization to differentiate games.
Puppetbones wrote:
Anyway, sorry to make you read so much; I hope it helps. And if it sounds like I'm whining about everything, I'm not. I just want to keep this game from dying and as a map developer myself I know these kind of lengthy, whiny suggestions help.

No problem. Lengthy, whiny suggestions are the best.

_________________
Never ignore coincidence. Unless, of course, you’re busy. In which case, always ignore coincidence.


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:06 pm 
User avatar
CCA
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:13 am
Posts: 363
Wiki edits: 0
Offline
I think changing the ability to C for all docking is a step that should happen..

and I played with Puppet yesterday a couple of games, but kinetics aren't really usable by the AI just yet (they will shoot them vs max shield targets, waste EMP missiles vs targets with no shields, etc.) - it requires a competent player on weapons, which is somewhat rare when there are a large number of new players (we were playing vs each other + 2 pubs each mostly)

as far as the same few upgrades/strategies becoming bland, there were quite a few extended discussions around them.. ultimately kinetics became viable (I think they are OP with bleed-through despite max shields and max core upgrades) and the tiers were supposed to become "unique" upgrade paths.. I also suggested tracking "upgrades" via player banks to find out which ones are over-used and which ones are underutilized and balancing them accordingly, but Siretu didn't want to implement it (it would clutter the bank files..) - the upgrade scaling was also supposed to address this by making it expensive to max out any single upgrade path (i.e. level 10 lasers), and lastly, not new, but minerals still have a large influence on the tech path that a team can take - if you are lacking red, it limits your options, and thus will often force you into a different strategy

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 5:17 pm 
User avatar
Yarrr
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:33 am
Posts: 494
Wiki edits: 126
Offline
Regarding the chores being manual thing...

I feel like you're making a fair point, but complaining about the completely wrong things. It takes only a few seconds in order to create a set of flares for pretty much your entire team. Halving the cooldown will effectively only save one or two seconds. That is not the issue.
The issue lies in travel time. The size of the battlecruiser and the space between most of the stations is what causes a lot of the dead time you're complaining about.

Regarding the predictability of upgrades and equipment purchases, I'm going to partially stick to what I said before: short upgrade times and low costs result in a means of 'upgrade this as fast as possible' with no real opportunity cost. You could opt to save up, or you could actually spend your minerals rather than opt to sit around and fall behind.
I would also partially blame the fact that these are, for the most part, simple number upgrades. Mining laser +8%. Speed +8%. +1 Energy Regeneration. These upgrades will not effectively change how you play, or what your plans are -- they will simply increase the efficiency of those plans. And, to be honest, I feel like this is why certain upgrade paths are expected. Sure, you can focus on harassing upgrades, or rush battlecruiser upgrades for kerm presence, or economy, but the only reason you would do one of those particular things because of your upgrades would be because you lacked the resources for the other options.
Strategies are not limited by upgrades. Upgrades are merely supplements to strategies. And that makes upgrade paths predictable.

... and as for clumsy controls, the usage of inventory is unfortunate. The only solution I can even begin to consider would be giving each ship a 'use first available item,' rather than 'use item slot X' due to the command card limitations, or if there was an ability to make a 'sub-menu' within the command card directly linked to inventory. Such that say, you could hit i-1 in order to use your first inventory slot.

... I could be wrong, but those are my thoughts.


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:01 pm 
User avatar
Creator
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:00 pm
Posts: 1027
Location: In the SC2 Editor
Wiki edits: 115
Offline
slapshot wrote:
I also suggested tracking "upgrades" via player banks to find out which ones are over-used and which ones are underutilized and balancing them accordingly, but Siretu didn't want to implement it (it would clutter the bank files..)


Just to be clear on why I didn't want this. Since there's no way to store upgrade statistics globally, I would have to have something that spreads through bank files (like a benign virus, but that's beside the point). It would be annoying to implement, clutter the bankfile a lot (which you mentioned), and be VERY unreliable because of our small player-base.

What would we gain from it? We would know which upgrades are over-used and which ones are underutilized. We basically already know this. It would be easier to just ask the community.

I understand that you are/were planning on doing this for your game, and it makes more sense since you can implement global statistics and you can do it from the start, especially at an alpha stage when those statistics are much more necessary.

----------------

Anyway, I agree with everything else that's been said, and I'm open to suggestions on all fronts.

On the topic of map mineral distribution forcing your hand on upgrades, I think that could be considered a good thing in this context? Consider a situation without mining where both teams received X of each resources per minute. The upgrade path would be much more static than it is now. You could, if you want, always take the same upgrade path.

In Cruiser Command, due to the resource distribution, you'll be forced to slightly improvise your choice based on available resources. Should I save for this better choice even though we might not find enough of that resource for quite some time or should I spend it on something else that gives us an immediate benefit? This is a big part of what makes CC different from game to game, and it directly impacts the upgrade choices, which often impacts the gameplay and the result.

Re-reading your post, I realize that maybe we're both agreeing to this...

_________________
Never ignore coincidence. Unless, of course, you’re busy. In which case, always ignore coincidence.


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:19 pm 
User avatar
Yarrr
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:33 am
Posts: 494
Wiki edits: 126
Offline
Resource distribution isn't bad. It makes it such that sometimes you can't always get what you want. It makes the game a little more unpredictable.

Regarding the whole tedious chore like issue, it would be nice if we could compile a little list of the 'chore-like things.' That's an issue we sort of have to address one by one. I also worry a little that some of the only solutions might require some more radical solutions like changing the ship layout.

The controls are an issue, but there's no obvious solution I feel like unless submenus are used for inventories. I don't feel like that's a bad solution, but I have no idea how difficult or annoying it would be to create.

As for the upgrades, I really do wish we could get the 'queue' working. It would help open up a lot of extra ideas, since making long upgrades is frustrating. The moment we did, we could work with fewer, slightly longer upgrades without forcing a player to just sit there mindlessly.


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:49 pm 
User avatar
CCI
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:32 am
Posts: 116
Location: United States
Offline
I have your answer for the inventory hotkeys. There is a way to do it via triggers. You can simply create an invisible button dialog item for each inventory slot, and have a hotkey for each one. And you can have numbers as hotkeys too. I just made a button in the editor with a hotkey of '1' and it worked perfectly.

Here's an example of what it would look like in the trigger module. This example would create 6 dialog items with hotkeys 1 through 6:

global variables:
-inventoryDialog = No Dialog <Dialog>
-inventoryDialogItem = No Dialog Item <DialogItem[5]>

dialog creation trigger:
Event: whenever you think it should be created
Actions:
-Dialog - Create a Modal dialog of size (100,100) at (0,0) relative to Top Left of screen
-Dialog - Hide the background image of (Last created Dialog)
-Dialog - Show (Last created dialog) for (All players)
-Variable - Set inventoryDialog = (Last created dialog)
-General - Pick each integer from 0 to 5, and do (Actions)
-----Dialog - Create a button for dialog (Last created dialog) with the dimensions (10,10) anchored to Top with an offset of (0,0) setting tooltip to "" with button text "" and hover image set to ""
-----Dialog - Set (Last created dialog item) image to Assets\Textures\blank.dds for (All players)
-----Dialog - Set (Last created dialog item) Accept Mouse flag to False for (All players)
-----Dialog - Set (Last created dialog item) hotkey to (picked integer + 33) for (All players)
-----//might not take picked integer + 33 as a parameter, so it might have to be done manually outside of the for loop
-----Variable - Set inventoryDialogItem[Picked integer] = (Last created dialog Item)

You now have the dialog created. Note that the string for hotkeys 1-8 is 33-40. It's mapped out oddly though. More info at http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8517691914 .
So now you would create another trigger for handling the use of the hotkeys, with the event being:

Dialog - Any Dialog Item is used by Player Any Player with event type Hotkey Pressed

and then I'll let you handle the actions.


Slapshot wrote:
I also suggested tracking "upgrades" via player banks to find out which ones are over-used and which ones are underutilized and balancing them accordingly, but Siretu didn't want to implement it (it would clutter the bank files..)


I did a very similar thing for my map, and it took loads of work, cluttered the bank, and basically told me things I already knew. I would suggest that Erik not do this.

Edit: After rereading a couple of posts I realized my ss inventory hotkey idea might have been slightly misunderstood. whytedragon mentioned how it would clutter up the command card but that's not what I was thinking of doing. We don't need to add more buttons to the command card for the inventory because the buttons are already there (you can click an inventory item to use it). I was thinking more along the lines of invisible buttons to set up hotkeys, as I said above. You could probably enhance it by adding little numbers at the bottom right corner of each inventory item corresponding to its hotkey. (this would also be done via dialogs in triggers)


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:57 am 
User avatar
Creator
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:00 pm
Posts: 1027
Location: In the SC2 Editor
Wiki edits: 115
Offline
The big revelation here is the use of hotkeys for dialogs. This changes _everything_. I want to think that this is a "new" feature. In other words, it wasn't available for launch.

But yeah, this should mean that I can link stuff to hotkeys without network lag. There is an even for general hotkeys, but it causes network lag, and is therefore not ideal. I have to go and think about all the things I could do with this. I know there are things before that I've ignored due to being unable to hotkey stuff.

_________________
Never ignore coincidence. Unless, of course, you’re busy. In which case, always ignore coincidence.


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:05 am 
User avatar
CCI
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:32 am
Posts: 116
Location: United States
Offline
Yep. I just recently found out about it myself. It really does change everything. I'll map out the hotkeys if you want since I couldn't find one online.


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Why people keep leaving CC
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:13 am 
User avatar
Creator
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:00 pm
Posts: 1027
Location: In the SC2 Editor
Wiki edits: 115
Offline
Do I need more than 33-38? I also found http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/develo ... em-hotkey/ that will help. I guess mapping out everything would help.

In other words, if I implement the inventory hotkeys, it means we can remove the flare and missile abilities if we want.

Puppetbones wrote:
Edit: After rereading a couple of posts I realized my ss inventory hotkey idea might have been slightly misunderstood. whytedragon mentioned how it would clutter up the command card but that's not what I was thinking of doing. We don't need to add more buttons to the command card for the inventory because the buttons are already there (you can click an inventory item to use it). I was thinking more along the lines of invisible buttons to set up hotkeys, as I said above. You could probably enhance it by adding little numbers at the bottom right corner of each inventory item corresponding to its hotkey. (this would also be done via dialogs in triggers)


I don't think your idea was misunderstood, but rather because of our lack of knowledge about the hotkey feature, whyte was suggesting an alternative way to implement it (with abilities on the command card and a submenu)

_________________
Never ignore coincidence. Unless, of course, you’re busy. In which case, always ignore coincidence.


Top
 Profile  
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group