Cruiser Command

Cruiser command is a cooperative map between two teams. Simply put, each team controls one battlecruiser and the goal is to kill the opponent's battlecruiser.


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 Post subject: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:34 pm 
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I was asked to put up a weapon Revamp thread if I thought it deserved its own, so I will.

Currently Single, Triple, and Pentaburst all lack particular 'identity' other than being 'different tiers of damage at different costs' on the battlecruiser. So long as we're discussing large scale changes, especially to the very static weapons console, I think a significant overhaul is required in this area. Right now, simply striking with Pentaburst seems like a tried and true solution, therefore making Single and Triple mostly obsolete. I would like to ammend that.

I can think of only one way to do this; grant Single/Triple/Penta burst more of their own identity, such that they serve a more unique role than simply damage. Perhaps they should possess these aspects by default -- perhaps an upgrade should unlock these aspects. At the moment, I'd primarily just like to put the ideas out there for discussion.

Raptor Cannon (Single Burst)
Damage: (12H/12S)
Cooldown: ~0.5
Shots Fired: 1 (x2)
Energy Cost: 100
Projectile Speed: Normal

- Striking an object with the Raptor Cannon inflicts it with a plasma charge. Each plasma charge increases the damage that object takes by 1% for the next 10 seconds. This may additively stack up to twenty times, for an effective increase of 20% damage.

Roc Cannon (Triple Burst)
Damage: (12H/12S)
Cooldown: ~1
Shots Fired: 3 (x2)
Energy Cost: 500
Projectile Speed: Normal

- When activated after being inactive for at least five seconds, the Roc Cannon's cooldown and energy cost is reduced by 20% for the next four attacks.

Rail Cannon (Penta Burst)
Damage: (60H/60S)
Cooldown: ~2
Shots Fired: 1 (x2)
Energy Cost: 800
Projectile Speed: Fast

- When the Rail Cannon projectile strikes an object with a plasma charge upon it, it causes the plasma charge to detonate, causing the Rail Cannon to deal 125% damage (in addition to the plasma charge bonus). Doing so consumes the plasma charge.

The clear purpose behind this would be to enforce the swapping of the various types of laser weaponry -- even allowing that at the bare minimum feels like it would give the weapons user more to think about.


Last edited by WhyteDragon on Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:51 pm 
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Sounds complicated but pretty cool.
More of an advanced weapons area to get sorta like kinetics, just start new players off with something simpler such as....

Heres my idea on lasers (lets get rid of single and penta, ripping that off whyte xD )

You start with the normal triple burst
8/8 damage 3(X2) (1s CD) (down from 12/12 damage)
drains 200 energy (down from 500 energy)
This will be your typical, energy efficient decent against everything weapon. and three burst is just more fun to start with

The 3 tech options, each their own are (will give them real names, for now these are just easy reference names)
each tech does bursts of 3(X2)

Long range lasers
8/8
drains 400 energy
25% faster then triple burst, and has tracking, good at dealing with enemy ships and long range bombardment

Hull lasers
15/9
drains 500 energy
25% slower then normal lasers

Shield Lasers
9/15
drains 500 energy
25% slower then normal lasers

Also the standard laser upgrades (5) will apply to all of them.

I like this because its pretty simple to identify and a good starter weapons tech

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 Post subject: Re: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:03 am 
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Missiles~~

it would be cool to redo how the missile loading process works, right now you cant step into the blue box area and you can only load one missile at a time, but can get really messy because some people (and missile AI with proper missile placement) can reload very fast and you have this burst of missiles
what i want to go for is sustained missile fire

My idea is that you can drop as many missiles as you want inside the blue box, however, it takes time to reload, we can draw reference and that cool conveyor belt next to each missile launcher, and it will take off 1 missile at a time to load into the launcher, like what the refinery does, but only 1 at a time. This could make for interesting missile use, as how you would want to balance each missile launcher so that a couple of launchers wont have to many and others to few and you end up wasting reloading time. And can prevent the missile *spam

TLDR~~Conveyor belt next to missile launchers is like refinery, takes 1 missile off pad which you can now enter and drop off as many missiles as you like, and loads into launcher.


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 Post subject: Re: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:19 am 
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Red-Rocket wrote:
You start with the normal triple burst
8/8 damage 3(X2) (1s CD) (down from 12/12 damage)
drains 200 energy (down from 500 energy)
This will be your typical, energy efficient decent against everything weapon. and three burst is just more fun to start with

Imbalanced. Too much DPS for energy cost by a LONG shot.

Red-Rocket wrote:
The 3 tech options, each their own are (will give them real names, for now these are just easy reference names)
each tech does bursts of 3(X2)

Long range lasers
8/8
drains 400 energy
25% faster then triple burst, and has tracking, good at dealing with enemy ships and long range bombardment

Hull lasers
15/9
drains 500 energy
25% slower then normal lasers

Shield Lasers
9/15
drains 500 energy
25% slower then normal lasers

Also the standard laser upgrades (5) will apply to all of them.

I like this because its pretty simple to identify and a good starter weapons tech

Dread, none of these do anything to solve the 'boring issue of weapons'. At the best, all you're doing is telling players to use 1 particular type of laser under one particular type of situation -- distance? Long range lasers. Shields? Shield laser. Hull? Hull laser. It's a 'match the colors' setup that doesn't require much, if any, thinking at all.

The point of what I put forward was to attempt to make the person do more than just right click. To be forced to pay attention to the various attributes of the weapons and their performance -- timing their weapon swaps in order to attain optimal DPS and be rewarded for it. It gives each of the lasers 'identity' and a purpose to use each rather than just spamming right click with 'the best laser.'

Just feels like you're tagging numbers on rather than attempting to improve the 'fun' of it.

DinoChicken wrote:
Missiles~~

it would be cool to redo how the missile loading process works, right now you cant step into the blue box area and you can only load one missile at a time, but can get really messy because some people (and missile AI with proper missile placement) can reload very fast and you have this burst of missiles
what i want to go for is sustained missile fire

My idea is that you can drop as many missiles as you want inside the blue box, however, it takes time to reload, we can draw reference and that cool conveyor belt next to each missile launcher, and it will take off 1 missile at a time to load into the launcher, like what the refinery does, but only 1 at a time. This could make for interesting missile use, as how you would want to balance each missile launcher so that a couple of launchers wont have to many and others to few and you end up wasting reloading time. And can prevent the missile *spam

TLDR~~Conveyor belt next to missile launchers is like refinery, takes 1 missile off pad which you can now enter and drop off as many missiles as you like, and loads into launcher.


I would not be particularly against this. Back when the Standalone CC was being discussed, I suggested Missiles coming in 'packs' so that you could fire off more than one at a time -- however, I would consider this to be an equal if not superior alternative.


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 Post subject: Re: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:11 am 
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I think both of you have some good ideas, but that neither is that much of a change. The problem with Whyte's ideas are that you still do not need to think very much: cycle through the weapons, firing 20, 4, 1. Perhaps that is not optimal, but I suspect some cycle is (and will be found). Meanwhile, Red-Rocket's suggestions doesn't require much work done by the person who is firing. I think Whyte is a bit hard on Red-Rocket's ideas though, especially with a more "bouncy" shield (as per Shield revamp). You'd have to predict their shield recharge rate, and when your projectiles would impact (more imporant with slower speed of projectiles), and switch between the various types accordingly. Fun? Maybe, but I think it would be something that at the very least requires skill. (Which is good.)


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 Post subject: Re: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:38 am 
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scrypso wrote:
I think both of you have some good ideas, but that neither is that much of a change. The problem with Whyte's ideas are that you still do not need to think very much: cycle through the weapons, firing 20, 4, 1. Perhaps that is not optimal, but I suspect some cycle is (and will be found).


I would not fully agree with that summation. Overall, yes -- there will probably be a 'best rotation' at some point. However, it will not be as linear as you described in my opinion.

Also, as a side note, I do not imagine a 'set rotation' between the set of three to be honest -- if anything, it would more likely be the back and forth between Single/Penta with Triple being interjected whenever it comes off cooldown.

Triple Burst, if you actually look at it, deals the 'optimal' damage setup over time. The limitation is primarily the 'five second off time.' It's an effective 4/3s DPS (33%) at a decent energy and DPS rate making it truly 'the most efficient' overall -- and even close to the most damaging due to the cooldown differences. However, you obviously can't utilize the primary bonus at all times, so to me I see the 'optimal' rotation not being as linear concept as described but something that's actually two dimensional. 'Use triple burst whenever it's off cooldown,' while also maintaining a proper ratio of single to penta burst.

Regarding the 'prediction' aspect you describe for the other version -- I have trouble seeing it that way. You'll have a very clear indicator of whether you're 'striking shields off' or not from the activating and de-activating shield effect that Siretu was looking for -- in the case that the shield icon is flickering on or off, you use Hull Lasers. In the case that it's not, you use Shield Lasers.

I'm sorry, but... is that really prediction? These projectiles will take fractions of a second to hit the enemy battlecruiser, even slowed as they are. It seems to me like you will only have to see those same fractions a of second into the future in order to optimize your laser selection.

Furthermore, I also fail to see the slower projectiles being a large issue in the long run. The battlecruiser is an enormous beast, and is often quite easy to hit with even slow projectiles. Admittedly it becomes harder to 'snipe' from across the map, but to begin with that's an exceedingly rare if ever used tactic that I have trouble seeing it being exceedingly effective in the long run. In recent times I've seen it used, it's actually resulted in the demise of the attacker due to energy loss. I can only imagine that will become a larger issue with the way new shields will work, which are far superior at mitigating less consistent damaging effects.


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 Post subject: Re: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:37 am 
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Oh i simply meant to have lasers to be the starter/cheap tech, then players would move on to something more powerful like kinetics and what whyte suggested. I was going for simplicity because you want to start off basic, then start adding more and more elements, not overwhelming people at the start, also in regards to pro players, it IS very basic and the lasers are situational, fine, then skip the lasers and go Whytes Cannons if you have eco, the point of lasers is they are basic, and im making them more situational.

And i like DinoChickens idea on Missiles, its more interesting then what we have now.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:12 pm 
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I also like DinoChickens idea about missiles. I've implemented it in the beta but without the conveyors belts and stuff. It'll be online when I publish it on beta again (will update the beta thread when that happens).

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 Post subject: Re: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:14 pm 
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*Bump*

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 Post subject: Re: Weapons revamp
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:47 pm 
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Dreadnought wrote:
*Bump*


?? Time for another weapons revamp?


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