Cruiser Command

Cruiser command is a cooperative map between two teams. Simply put, each team controls one battlecruiser and the goal is to kill the opponent's battlecruiser.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Nothing against the ideas in general -- yes, you can fix any imbalance by simply making a mirror version of the ability. Something does 100 damage? You can balance it by giving something that also heals 100. Something that makes you move 10% faster? Make something that slows by 10%.

However, I do not agree that it would be good game design. Just making a mirror ability as an inverse does not promote any form of higher thought - it simply tells the other team to come in with more energy, and then expend an appropriate amount of power equivalent to the other team. Then, inevitably, they are guaranteed to win simply because everything is precisely mirrored.

To me, that doesn't sound fun at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:22 pm 
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You're kinda thinking in the wrong direction. The game is ALREADY mirrored, - you have cruiser and cruiser, mirrored asteroid fields, kerm spawning in middle, you have lasers and you have shields, you have laser upgrades and you have shield upgrades. If one team has power docking - you gotta mirror it, the only difference is - do you mirror it with same things or you come out with thing that efficiently covers it.

Game now IS about who got more energy wins the fight. Boost and high engines are NOT counterable, and they absolutely nullify the value of destroyers, which are an issue, and having a tracktor that is a counter to enemy's ability to dodge the fight by speeding up and boosting - is not something that will increase routine. That is something to make fight more skill based! You think it's easy to control a power tracktor beam by keeping enemy stationar? That requires a lot of reaction and fast thinking. As for tracktor boost - it is not even required, since you can use old and boring mirror boost to counter boost.

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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:47 pm 
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IvanX wrote:
You're kinda thinking in the wrong direction. The game is ALREADY mirrored, - you have cruiser and cruiser, mirrored asteroid fields, kerm spawning in middle, you have lasers and you have shields, you have laser upgrades and you have shield upgrades. If one team has power docking - you gotta mirror it, the only difference is - do you mirror it with same things or you come out with thing that efficiently covers it.

Game now IS about who got more energy wins the fight. Boost and high engines are NOT counterable, and they absolutely nullify the value of destroyers, which are an issue, and having a tracktor that is a counter to enemy's ability to dodge the fight by speeding up and boosting - is not something that will increase routine. That is something to make fight more skill based! You think it's easy to control a power tracktor beam by keeping enemy stationar? That requires a lot of reaction and fast thinking. As for tracktor boost - it is not even required, since you can use old and boring mirror boost to counter boost.


I completely disagree with this method of thinking. The only sense of mirroring is that you can achieve the same upgrades in most cases since it isn't quite so simple as 'you can negate any thing with any one other thing. I have rarely seen two BC's hangers completely mirrored as the number of ships destroyed/plan of attack/number of destroyers/economic needs of each team will widely vary. You cannot call shields the inverse of lasers simply because it is an offense and a defense. It is not as simple as 'this increases damage by 5' and 'this reduces damage by 5,' there are multiple types of weaponry, abililties, and dodging that could also be utilized. Yes, the game has a heavy focus on an energy fight. That is no lie. That does not mean it is entirely mirrored, and that infiltrators, destroyers, corvettes, C4, missiles, and all other aspects of the game suddenly cease to exist.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:34 am 
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its not like sc2 where you have mirror matchups like TvT, CC playes out very differently

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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Red-Rocket wrote:
its not like sc2 where you have mirror matchups like TvT, CC playes out very differently


CC playes out very differently, like TVT does. Mirror Matches can be very different too, depending on the opening strategies...

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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:05 pm 
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With the tournament addition of the map wrap disable and the radar ping cooldown reduction upgrade, the late game should've been improved slightly. However, I don't think it's enough.

I really want to fix the late game before I go away(in almost 7 days, and I have almost no free time in this time), but it's hard because I want a concrete solution that I like(I'm doubtful about the engine heat). The solution also has to be relatively easy to implement and balance. Engine heat is a typical thing that would take some time(that I don't have) to implement and even more time to balance properly.

I have another idea, which might not be a good idea, but who knows. It is however very easy to implement and there's no real balancing involved since it's just on/off.

Idea:
Map wrapping disable now occurs at 90 minutes in instead of 60.

New upgrade:
Gravity Well Inducer(Costs 150y, 150b, 150r, 50g):
When researched, it will disable the map wrapping prematurely and permanently.

This way, a winning team can use resources to disable the wrapping. If they're ahead, this can be a very good idea and it also helps to bridge the gap between the two teams by having the winning team invest in something that impacts both teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:57 pm 
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and/or a greater/more kermaculite spawn

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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:07 pm 
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CCA
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Siretu wrote:
Idea:
Map wrapping disable now occurs at 90 minutes in instead of 60.

New upgrade:
Gravity Well Inducer(Costs 150y, 150b, 150r, 50g):
When researched, it will disable the map wrapping prematurely and permanently.


Interesting.
But what prevents you from going hardcore eco and preventing the enemy from rushing you by upping this early on?


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:32 pm 
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Degra wrote:
Siretu wrote:
Idea:
Map wrapping disable now occurs at 90 minutes in instead of 60.

New upgrade:
Gravity Well Inducer(Costs 150y, 150b, 150r, 50g):
When researched, it will disable the map wrapping prematurely and permanently.


Interesting.
But what prevents you from going hardcore eco and preventing the enemy from rushing you by upping this early on?

I snickered.

Okay, they can't wrap the map to get to you.

They take the long way around. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:37 pm 
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CCA
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I LOVE IT.

... but even if it was more expensive... it would still be MASSIVELY EXPLOITABLE (just take my word for it)

The least broken way I can think to use it:
If the research time was low enough, <5 seconds, it could be used as an awesome escape plan.


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