Cruiser Command

Cruiser command is a cooperative map between two teams. Simply put, each team controls one battlecruiser and the goal is to kill the opponent's battlecruiser.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:44 pm 
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no dont do sacrafice hulls, it would end up with lots of repairing and minelayers added and would be more rediculas, mass replicators do get people back into games now that they are cheaper but the energy is so expensive!

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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:47 pm 
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WhyteDragon, yes the Structural Sacrifice would be incrediably powerful when combined with Ship Recycling and a competent team, but it would increase the coordination needed, and the strategies employable.

WhyteDragon wrote:
Quick, sacrifice 3000 hull for two additional miners! EVERYBODY, MINE RIGHT NOW!


Red-Rocket, why would Structural Sacrifice cause Minelayers? This sacrifice does not damage the ship, it decreases its Maximum Hull, just like Upgrade Hull increases it.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:13 pm 
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One thing I want to point out that I feel was particularly missed in my original post.

The intent, more than anything, was to create a mechanic that would cause your ship to be in a more dangerous position unless you resolved the situation using Kermiculite. I feel as if more often than not it is usually those who manage to acquire most of the Kermiculite consistently, the chasers, that will win the game. Failing that, they probably should. It implies that you've established dominance throughout most of the game without much of a contest, and you're simply unable to finish the blow.

That was the main reason why I suggested something that could be resolved through the use of Kermiculite, and the main reason why I disagree with the hull being reduced as an exchange -- it creates a situation where you simply need to acquire more resources in general, not Kermiculite which is very difficult to control as the game progresses.

With that in mind, I think there are a lot of ideas in here that are really nice. Ship recycling offers a nice method of recovery from a dangerous mining situation, and I don't feel as if it will be abused too readily since the player limit is a bit restrictive on the number of small ships you can work with regardless. My main concern is when people attempt to trash the corvette right at the start in order to get some small ship upgrades, creating a situation where wraiths will auto-rebuild (or should) in order for harass to continue after a certain period of time. In the first place, it becomes that much harder to kill the wraith because of the available upgrades. So, first and foremost, perhaps ship salvaging should only be available under certain circumstances, such as the loss of all miners or offensive vessels.

I also really like the idea of mass replicator creating energy with minerals in exchange. It creates further usage for excess kermiculite that builds up during the late game, meaning it can be invested in a variety of things such as missiles, hull upgrades, and so on. It makes the Mass Replicator something that you should expect to be bought for a change. However, I would highly recommend you set a cooldown on all burning lest you risk the ability to produce some a million GJ of energy by stockpiling using resources and then ridding yourself of them mid fight.

Also, about the critique regarding hull integrity, I will agree it probably isn't intuitive enough. Another very simple suggestion would be to simply create an 'ultimatum' ability, I.E. 1000 Kermiculite in order to expand your capacitors to 250k, or some sort of super weapon. For reference, to mass replicate even 100 Kermiculite you have to run through one and a half capacitors of energy.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:43 pm 
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WhyteDragon, I think you are correct in your post. Also, as a community we are being lazy about early game Miner positioning and BattleCruiser support.
Remember that was how the 2-hour game last night began, we had to keep our Miners alive, against a superior Wraith Pilot. Teams that are incapable of the Command & Communicaton needed for survival need to be punished for their hubris. Man that was a hard fought game guys, sorry for the Rabbiting.

Concerning Resource Fission cool-down, I do not think the possibility of ~500 Energy / Second would be too high.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Red-Rocket wrote:
BC should be a slow lumbering thing that only in emergency situations would it get this crasy amount of speed hence "boost", i dont like it but i think we should put a cap on engines to about say...150


This would make power console a pretty boring thing.

IvanX wrote:
http://cruisercommand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=387

:P here's what can help you, - mass replicator working both for creating minerals from energy over time and back (refining minerals for energy) - would give the team that dominates and can freely over-mine their enemy a great boost in energy cap, which will allow it to outrun enemy in energy.


I don't think that will help, and here's why:

Attacker: 500 GW engines + 200 GW shields + 800 GW weapons = 1500 GW drain.

Defender: 500 GW engines = 500 GW drain.

The only way a new power source will help is if it's imba. You can already squeeze 60 GW from kermiculite with science, and it's something that I bet people don't even notice.

Also, the problem is still around for the losing team's view, not being able to come back. Without kermiculite, you can't get destroyers, and without destroyers, your opponent will win in a straight up fight with their own destroyers. Making infiltrators more viable could help with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 6:08 pm 
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well ok the structural hull sacrafice thingy can be abused early on, this sounds like something a mass rep would be perfect for and deter most new players and trollers early on because hey...it requires mass rep so no worries about seeing rushes and an immediate need to convert hull to mins

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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Red-Rocket wrote:
well ok the structural hull sacrafice thingy can be abused early on, this sounds like something a mass rep would be perfect for and deter most new players and trollers early on because hey...it requires mass rep so no worries about seeing rushes and an immediate need to convert hull to mins

I think we already established structural hull isn't necessarily a good idea to begin with though? In hind sight, the issue is that damage can't get done due to mousing. At best, you'd have the damage dealt from BC moving too fast but that isn't much.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Well, i actually meant chasing them till they're out of energy, and not running out of it - like minimize shooting, and shields shouldn't be much bigger then enemy shield, after 5 min chase they'll waste their cap by 500GW engines, if not - you can still use missles to kill em since they're very close to you - which is no energy waste and pretty good damage

Althou if they would put engines to energy-safe value you will still not be able to kill them and can chase forever :/

Decrease nanobots repair potentional proportional to cruiser speed? the faster you go the less efficient they are.

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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:55 pm 
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IvanX wrote:
Well, i actually meant chasing them till they're out of energy, and not running out of it - like minimize shooting, and shields shouldn't be much bigger then enemy shield, after 5 min chase they'll waste their cap by 500GW engines, if not - you can still use missles to kill em since they're very close to you - which is no energy waste and pretty good damage

Althou if they would put engines to energy-safe value you will still not be able to kill them and can chase forever :/

Decrease nanobots repair potentional proportional to cruiser speed? the faster you go the less efficient they are.


Here is the issue with that:

It is much easier for a person to run away than it is to chase. Why? Map wrapping, juking, ETC. The amount of energy expended will almost always greater for the chasing party, even if both only expend engines. So you can imagine when you start shooting as well, it gets to be a huge drain, and missiles only go so far due to cost limitations.

Also, I don't necessarily find issue with the repair bots being used at high speed since they are limited. If unattended to they will simply run out. And mass repairing is rather time intensive, so it leaves little time to do anything else. Generally speaking, repair bots might be a bit too powerful rather than anything, healing 300 hull per placement with 0 cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfinishable Late Game
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:58 am 
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Well, being easier to escape is not something bad if u ask me, that is how it is supposed to work, otherwise it'd be strange

If you really want to change that, engine temperature can be introduced, while going on a high speed the longer you go the bigger it becomes, after some amount engine starts random fires at the bc, and does much bigger damage, plus sudden blow ups which push BC left and right, and can give short accelerations, like u know when engines blow up you get a small boost due to explosion.

You can go even further and make engine have separate health, so once you burn your engine - gg you can't move anymore until you buy a fresh one, or can move, but your energy requirements would be 3 times bigger, so you'll need 300 GW at engines to move at 100 GW worth speed. Boost should also add huge amount to engine temperature, so that it wouldn't be something you can spam alot while flying at 400 GW engines

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